Curse

Algren Cole · Aug 23, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mhydrian

Well hey since everyone hates nerfs, lets make this game entirely ridiculous. Spread the love...EVERYONE can use enchants to make themself essentially invulnerable and solo whereever the hell they want!!!! YEAH MAN WOO HOO FREE GOLD...Uberness for all!!!

you don't understand the 105/55 build at all do you?

Xonic · Aug 23, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

The most likely cause of my quitting GW is the constant bitching and whining from the player community. It makes a great game taste bad.

please insert "you are bitching about people bitching" comment below.

Phades · Aug 23, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

You don't have to read the forums or open the local chat in game.

sleazeh · Aug 23, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

I have a 55 monk, I've run one since well before the build become popular - let's face it, for generating gold and experience, it's unparalleled. That being said, I am hoping they tweak the protective bond skill.

Although I have no concrete evidence to support this, my belief is that the skill will be altered such that it reflects what I believe to be the original design intent; damage taken will be a percentage of maximum initial health before application of runes. In my opinion, this build takes advantage of a "quirk" in the skill mechanic that was unforseen by the development team, and on the PvE side, creates balance issues in certain specific and limited situations. Adding flesh golems or mind blades or something to areas that did not previously evidence them does not address the core problem, but rather is simply a band aid solution that (negatively?) affects all players. All that has to happen, IMO, is to rework the prot bond skill slightly to reflect what (likely) was the original intent.

To those who claim that "soloing the UW is the only challenge left" in Guild Wars, I would ask where is the challenge, exactly? In the countless runs I've done, there was nothing particularly challenging about activating the same 3 or 4 skills in succession over and over again. In fact, it's about the most repetitive and non-challenging activity I've come across in playing the game....whether you're talking about smite runs, griffons, tengu, or trolls. The only reason we do it is for money and experience; once you've done a few runs to get the hang of things, we certainly don't do it for the challenge.

Nor do I buy the argument that I've heard about against nerfing based on the success of creative build design - because for damn sure 99.9999 percent of people running this build are doing so because they read it and copied it from forums just like this one.

To whomever said in an earlier post that it was a good and profitable run while it lasted I think has the right of it. This build has become a crutch - for me, and in my opinion, for countless others. About time for me to get back to actually playing the game.

But hey, who am I to dictate...right?

Numa Pompilius · Aug 23, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

This thread is the tiniest taste of the barrage of whining which'll hit the boards once the build really DOES get nerfed.

/unsigned

David Lionmaster · Aug 23, 2005, 05:11 PM // 17:11

i dont have a monk, and i dont like that build, so id be glad if they weakened that build.

Fantus · Aug 23, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleazeh

This build has become a crutch - for me, and in my opinion, for countless others. About time for me to get back to actually playing the game.

Hmm.. funny, I always had the impression that playing a 105 monk WAS playing the game, too.

Damn, I was walking the dark side all that time and didn't even notice.

Maybe one of the "nerf everything" faction would care to enlighten us about the true nature of righteous gaming? Let me guess... YOUR way, right?

domino69 · Aug 23, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

"The frog objects not to honourable farmers."
-Frog, Aug 21, 2005-

There is nothing dishonourable with the 105 monk build, ergo, if the frog is keeps true to his word, this build will not be nerfed. So fellow 105ers, I wouldn't worry if I were you.

Some creative thinking went into this build. Its a legit way to farm for ectos. If Anet is going to change parts of the UW or PB just to nerf the 105, then shame on them! To be fair to everyone, they should nerf all farmer builds.

Lets face it. The only ones biatching to nerf this build are the players who do not have the build and are just plain jealous. You whiners don't want the people who have it to be able to solo PARTS of UW because you can't!

My advice: get with the program, make your own 105 and collect your ectos.

Xonic · Aug 23, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

You don't have to read the forums or open the local chat in game.

then I would have not much to do during work hours...

if I turn off local chat, I would be missing most of the trade messages

Fantus · Aug 23, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Lionmaster

i dont have a monk, and i dont like that build, so id be glad if they weakened that build.

I don't have a Necromancer - please delete them from the game right now.

Theos · Aug 23, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

As sleazeh said, the 105/55 is not challenging at all to run, unless you try some strange altered version or try to go up against mindblades/behemoths.

If you really want a challenge attempt soloing UW with a mesmer, or a warrior or even a necro. I guarantee it will be a challenge, and not simple repetitive pushing of buttons.

/unsigned (Numa made the best post as to what this really is)

Silmor · Aug 23, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

you respect people that do things simply because the masses are bitching about it? that's kinda sad...

Newsflash: the masses are abusing this and are bitching to everyone who argues for a nerf, not the other way around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

you don't understand the 105/55 build at all do you?

You're probably the least qualified person to make a statement like that. Mhydrian's post was over-the-top sarcasm, but people have actually suggested to buff all other classes instead of nerfing Protective Bond, so it's not even very far-fetched.

And to all the people crying that 'monks' will be nerfed, that's nonsense. If ArenaNet goes about this the right way, monks who use Protective Spirit/Bond in a normal fashion (i.e. on allies with normal max health) won't be affected by any nerf, and the skill would be just as potent as it was before. Just those people who use it with ridiculously low health monks will be affected, as they are making this into a problem themselves.

Fantus · Aug 23, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Newsflash: the masses are abusing ...

Funny how people manage to advertise their PERSONAL OPINION like it was an absolute truth...

Xonic · Aug 23, 2005, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Let's face it. If the US government finds out some people are collecting free money from social security office, i.e. a loop hole in the SS laws, Bush will have that loop hole closed.

Now, those people who had been collecting free money, they should giggle like school girls, be grateful that the free cash run lasted as long as it did.

nobody cares if they bitch and morn and threaten to leave the US and move to canada. at least I don't.

Silmor · Aug 23, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Funny how people manage to advertise their PERSONAL OPINION like it was an absolute truth...

I will readily agree that the word 'abuse' carries an opinion - only ArenaNet gets to decide on that. Replace it with 'using', and address the actual content of my writing instead of one word that has no specific significance to what I was trying to say.

So we're left with comparing the amount of people calling for a nerf for this, and the amount of people either using this or getting ready to use this. The numbers for these two groups are factual, they have nothing to do with opinion, so your entire scathing remark flies right out the window.

Sekkira · Aug 23, 2005, 05:33 PM // 17:33

I find it funny how people are absolutely positively sure that this will be nerfed. That goes the other way, that people are 100% sure that it wont be nerfed. Me? I don't want it nerfed. I don't see a real solid reason to be nerfed. It so far hasn't effected the economy in a good or bad way as far as I can see and I've seen no reason why people are against it that's viable.

However if this is nerfed, I'd have to agree with Dragou Du Porzan. It'd be nice to see a proper explanation for it's nerfing in the notes otherwise it will sound awfully like that they are giving in to something so unreasonable. If they didn't intend for Protection Bond to be 1 energy at level 17, I have no problems with that. It's up to them and what their decision is, WHATEVER way it swings is final and we all have to live with it.

This is another one of those crucial points here that could decide where the game is heading. One of them I'll like, one I can accept, the other, bowing down to this vocal minority will be the first phase of many of it's downfall. I do not want to see that.

ArenaNet, do what YOU see fit, ignore those of us who are in either favor for a nerf or against it.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 23, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

We ALL know I wont quit, hell, I'll throw an in-game good riddance party for all the monkroaches in muguma staad.

Robos Stavanis · Aug 23, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I agree with your point of view on the rest of your post to a certain point, but this is the piece that I think needs to be clarified...

The 105 build is continuing to ruin the economy. Yes, what you say is true about ecto and shards...they actually LOWER the price of those items.

However, these builds are making prices for the best equipment and upgrades absolutely skyrocket. The problem is the absolute influx of cash that the 105 monks have injected into the economy.

In other words, when the monks produce a ton of ecto and shards and other gold max damage weapons, they are able to generate a ton of cash from their sales. Because they are able to obtain a ton of cash, they can absolutely overbid on items that are available to the general public to secure for their other characters. For example, a couple of months ago a +30 sword pommel of fortitude went for about 30 platinum. Now, because the 105 monks generally have some other warrior character in their stable, they can go out and completely overbid on the same pommel for 150+ platinum, because, in relative terms, the cash is meaningless to them because of the constant inflow from the UW. As a result, they wind up setting the exorbitantly high prices in GW, because the sellers always know that they can find a 105 monk that will pay them 4-5 times the normal price of an item.

THAT is why I expect the 105 build will be nerfed somewhat...to bring a little more balance to the cash-rich hyper-inflationary economy that exists in the game today.

My 4th cahracter is a 105 Monk. I must be missing out on all those riches. Ecto's sure are not dropping from the preverbial tree for me, thats for sure. And as far as soloing UW, if you call a very small percentage of UW as soloing with any degree of certainty then I guess I solo, but if I tried for much more, I would be toast really quick.

Koroh · Aug 23, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

The Dev (frog) comment about not having a problem with "honourable farmers" got me thinking...

Maybe they're implementing something to stop bots, not the 105/55 or spirit spammers. Think about it. If you're sitting at your comp playing the game then it's fine with nearly everyone. It shows a little weakness of willpower to use an exploit, but it's still within the rules of the game.

I think the comment could be interpreted against bots. Honourable farmers would be player-controlled characters, no matter the build.

I also have a quick question about the 105/55 since I haven't actually used it or evaluated the template for myself. Is the problem that the prot reduces the damge to a low % of the original, then the absorption from greater runes/armour is applied? If so, just reverse the order these are applied and it should work as originally intended.

Koroh

Fantus · Aug 23, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

I will readily agree that the word 'abuse' carries an opinion - only ArenaNet gets to decide on that.

Indeed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Replace it with 'using', and address the actual content of my writing instead of one word that has no specific significance to what I was trying to say.

The actual content of your writing is that you think that the 105 monk / the skill Protective Bond is broken.

I don't think it's broken, the 105 monk is just a clever build.

We have different opinions (and we both have a right to have that opinion), we probably won't ever agree on that matter - let's just do what you suggested above and let ArenaNet decide.

But let me add one thing: If Prot Bond gets marked as being "broken", I could add a decent number of other skills that are equally "broken" (as in "can be too powerful if used in certain builds/cirumstances"). My point just was: If we really start to nerf everything that people regard as "being too powerful", this will start an endless cycle of nerfing that never will end again.